creation vs. evolution part #1

[witchy]

this is a bible study the paster at my church is doing and its really interesting seams to explain some of the stuff religons leave out and some of the stuff sciance dosnt explain. he doing it in parts so ill post them as they come. if your like me and cant read this much on a puter screan you may want to copy and paste it in notebook and print it for easyer reading. ill post them all seprately to make it easyer to discuss each one if anybody would like to.


Evolution and Creation- Part 1

Edited web sites and other sources. This is an attempt to educate the reader to a very difficult topic that seems to divide many people. There are two main problems for me. One is: If all life is a result of evolution, where did the first matter originate from? The other is: If God created it all, where did He come from? Both, evolution and creation go beyond my ability to understand. That leads me to the point of deciding whether everything that exists is by accident or if I have the needed faith to believe in a Creator God. Obviously, I believe in Creation, as most of you do, but after reading the various views, where do your initial thoughts and opinions lie?
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An Internet Overview:

The media delight in talking about the warfare between evolution, creation science, and the new kid on the bloc: intelligent design. However, there are not just three conflicting belief systems concerning the origin of plants, animals, humans, the rest of the world and the rest of the universe. There are literally hundreds of theories which can be grouped into three categories:


Many diverse, conflicting religious views: According David Barrett et al, editors of the "World Christian Encyclopedia" there are 19 major world religions which are subdivided into a total of 270 large religious groups, and many thousands of smaller ones. Among these various faith groups, we estimate that there are hundreds of significantly different creation stories to draw from. Included among these hundreds of belief systems is a group of beliefs which is particularly popular in North America:


Creation science: This consists of about a dozen different, conflicting, belief systems, based on different interpretations of the creation stories in the biblical book of Genesis. They can be subdivided into two groups:


New Earth creationists believe that the earth, its life forms, and the rest of the universe were created by God fewer than 10,000 years ago. Only very minor changes within various species have happened since creation. No new species have evolved or been created. In North America, this belief system is mainly promoted by Christians who believe that God inspired the authors of the Hebrew Scriptures (a.k.a. Old Testament) to write inerrant text. They generally believe that the six day creation interval described in one of the creation stories in Genesis represents a 144 hour interval.


Old Earth creationists believe that geology and radiometric dating has shown that the world is billions of years old. They believe that God created the Earth itself, the earth's life forms, and the rest of the universe at that time. Those old earth creationists who believe in the literal interpretation of an inerrant Bible interpret the six "day" creation interval as occupying a very long interval of time.


Scientific view: The origin of the universe occurred about 15 billion years ago. The earth coalesced about 4.5 billion years ago. Life subsequently began, probably as bacteria deep in rocks, and has been evolving ever since. These various processes have been driven by purely natural forces, without input from a God or a Goddess or multiple deities. A number of scientific specialties are involved in the study of these processes:


Cosmology: The study of the origins and development of the universe. Of particular importance is the "big bang" model which describes the initial explosion which most probably occurred at the origin of the universe.


Geology: This includes the study of the Earth's tectonic plates, volcanoes, mountain formation, etc.


Abiogenesis: The study of the origin of life in its most primitive form: the transition from non-living matter to living matter.


The theory of evolution: How the initial primitive life form changed over time to become the great diversity of plant and animal species seen on Earth today.


Other specialty scientific studies from acarology (the study of ticks and mites) to virology (the study of viruses).




Theistic evolution view: The various processes of cosmology, abiogenesis, biological evolution, etc. happened just as scientists believe. However, they are viewed as tools created, used, directed, and/or controlled by God in order to accomplish a higher purpose.


Most of the essays in this section deal with the latter three belief systems: the Christian version of creation science, scientific view and theistic view.

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2nd web site

Evolution theories

OVERVIEW OF THE MAIN THEORIES OF ORIGINS
Including the theory of evolution, creation science, etc.
The meaning of terms:
It is our policy to use the terms by which various groups describe themselves. But sometimes this can be deceptive. A "theory" may be much more than a theory; a "science" may be not a science at all:


The term "theory" in science can mean something much different from the same word in general use. The Theory of Evolution of plant and animal species is far more than a simple idea; it is well beyond a hunch; many leading scientists consider it an established fact. It is the foundational belief upon which many branches of science are based. Dr. Gerald Wheeler, director of the National Science Teachers Association said in 1999-OCT: "Everything is a theory, but...[evolution is] probably the biggest unifying theory that exists in all of science." If either the theory of evolution or an old Earth were to be proven incorrect, then our understanding of many different sciences would collapse.


Various U.S. court decisions have concluded that "creation science" is not actually science. This is because the beliefs of creation scientists cannot be falsified. That is, it would be impossible for a creation scientist to accept a proof that their beliefs are false and that naturalistic or theistic evolution is true. That is because their fundamental, foundational belief is that the creation stories in the Book of Genesis are inspired by God and are thus inerrant. All physical evidence is judged by comparing it to their interpretation of Genesis. No evidence from nature can disprove this belief. Once a person accepts a religious text as the basis of their scientific studies, they no longer are free to follow where the data leads. They cease being a scientist.


Theories of origins:
Most media accounts and websites refer to a battle between two belief systems: evolution and creation science. This is not a particularly good model, because:


The scope of the conflict is much larger than this. It extends beyond the origins and the development (if any) of the plant and animal species to include the origins and development of the earth and the rest of the universe.


There are not one but two main forms of creation science in North America. There are also two main forms of what drove, and continues to drive, evolution.


In North America, there are really at least four main belief systems on the origins of plants, animals, the earth itself, and the rest of the universe.

Belief System
Approximate age of the universe in years
Biological evolution happened?
Evolution driven by God?

Creation Science (Young Earth version)
Under 10,000
No
N/A *

Theistic view
15 billion
Yes
Yes

Scientific view
15 billions
Yes
No

Creation science (Old Earth version)
15 billions
No
N/A *


* N/A" Not applicable because they do not believe in evolution. Thus God did not drive it.

Within some of the main views, there are many variations.

There are also perhaps 500 other belief systems. These are the creation stories taught by the many thousands of faith groups worldwide. Very few resemble the account in Genesis. We will not extensively discuss these beliefs. Only a few percent of our web site's visitors follow one of these belief systems.



More detailed descriptions of beliefs about origins:

Young Earth Creation Science: (44% public support; 5% support among scientists generally; 0.15% support among earth and life scientists). 1 God created the universe during 6 consecutive 24 hour days, less than 10,000 years ago. God rested on the seventh day. All of the various "kinds" of animals that are present on earth today (and those kinds like dinosaurs which once existed but are now extinct) are all descendants of the animals that God created during days in creation week. Many features of the Earth that we see today -- ranging from fossil-laden layers of rock, the mountain ranges, strings of active, dormant and extinct volcanoes, the Grand Canyon, etc. were formed during the great flood of Noah. These beliefs are held mainly by people who interpret the Bible literally, regard the Hebrew and Christian Scriptures as inspired by God, and inerrant. This view is promoted by the Institute for Creation Research, the Center for Scientific Creation, Answers In Genesis, Creation Research Society, and many other creation science groups.


Theistic view: (39% support). 1 The universe is about 15 billion years old; the earth's crust developed about 4.5 billion years ago. Geological features developed over the life of the Earth. God caused the first living cell to appear. Humans evolved out of lower forms of life under the direct guidance of God. God steered evolution, at least to some degree, as a mechanism to guide the development of new species. This view is promoted by Reasons to Believe and some other groups. Some supporters of this belief system suggest that the human soul is a special creation of God.



Scientific view: (10% support). 1 Same beliefs as for the theistic view, except that God or other deities are assumed to have played no part in the processes. Origins and change in the universe, including the evolution of life species on Earth, were driven by purely natural forces. Many people have associated scientific views with strong Atheism -- the belief that no deity exists. Certainly, many scientists who support naturalistic evolution do not believe in the existence of a supreme being or beings. But others believe both in evolution and in one or more Gods and/or Goddesses who do not intrude on the outcome of natural forces. Some of the latter are Deists who believe that God created the universe, started it in motion, left the universe, and allowed natural processes to originate life and drive evolution.


Old Earth creation science: (Under 7% public support) 1 They believe that each "day" in Genesis may have been much longer than 24 hours; others believe that there were very long gaps between one or more of the "days." The number of supporters for this belief system is unknown. The Gallup Poll from which we estimate the support for this belief did not give old earth creation science as an option.




Most scientists, from astronomers to paleontologists, regard the scientific view as the best representation of reality. Only 0.15% of earth and life scientists subscribe to one of the creation science belief systems.

How old is the earth, and when did various species of animals live?
These two topics are closely related, because each theory has to account for all cosmological, geological, biological and other evidence :

Young earth creation scientists comprise about 0.15% of all earth and life scientists. Most are conservative Christians who believe that:


The world and the rest of the universe was created by God less than 10 thousand years ago.


All of the "kinds" of animals that ever lived were created during creation week.


A worldwide flood in the time of Noah wiped out all humans, except for the eight people on board Noah's ark. All human beings are descendants of Noah and his unnamed wife. The sediment during the flood generated the fossil-laden rock layers; the flood itself created many of the land forms that we see today.


All of the land animals similarly drowned, except for the 2 or 7 pairs of each species who were lucky enough to get a ride on the ark.


the earth's life forms have never evolved. For example, God created dinosaurs along with the other animals less than 10 millennia ago. They coexisted with humans on earth until they died off and became extinct. But minor changes within a "kind" have happened.




Supporters of the theistic and scientific views: Almost all scientists who are not fundamentalist or evangelical Christians believe that:


The universe started during the "big bang" some 15 billion years ago.


The world coalesced about 4.5 billion years ago.


The earth developed a crust about 3.9 billion years ago.


Crude, primitive forms of life appeared shortly thereafter.


Plant and animal species have been evolving ever since.


Fossil bearing rock layers are composed of sediment which was laid down over an interval of millions of years.


Dinosaurs became extinct many tens of millions of years ago, long before the first humans evolved.


Old Earth creation scientists believe:


The Earth and the rest of the universe were created by God billions of years ago.


Fossil-bearing rocks and other land forms were formed over very long intervals of time.


God created all of the kinds of animals over a relatively short period, as described in Genesis.


"Kinds" of animals are fixed. No new ones are being created. But minor changes within a kind have happened.


Dinosaurs were created not long before humans, but became extinct.


Who is right?
Scientists feel that their beliefs can be proven correct because they are based on observation and measurements:


Evidence from geology, anthropology, paleontology, nuclear physics, astronomy, cosmology and many other sciences show that the Earth and the rest of the universe have been in existence far longer than 10,000 years.


Observations of nature show that all "kinds" did not come on the scene at roughly the same time. Rather, simple forms of life came first, and then evolved into more complex forms.


However, scientists cannot prove whether or not God or a collection of deities steered various processes over time. This is a speculation that cannot be tested.

Meanwhile, those who base their beliefs on their interpretation of the Genesis creation stories feel that their beliefs can be proven right, for the simple reason that they are based on their interpretation of the Bible.

Unfortunately, there exists no universally accepted proofs from nature that eliminate any of the main major belief systems. What evidence is accepted by one group is rejected by the others.



The age of the Earth is a key factor:
If someone can prove that the Earth or the rest of the universe is billions of years old, then belief in young earth creation science would have to be abandoned. Scientists will then be faced with three possible models for the earth's animal species:


The theistic view is correct. God guided evolution which caused simple bacteria to evolve into complex animals over billions of years.


The scientific view is correct. Natural processes caused simple bacteria to evolve into complex animals over billions of years.


Old earth creation science is correct. God created the Earth and the rest of the universe billions of years ago, and created all of the animal kinds long ago. Some have since become extinct. Other kinds have changed to a minor degree.


To winnow the possibilities down further, someone will have to prove whether all the species were created at approximately the same time, or whether evolution from simple bacteria to complex species actually occurred. Even if evolution were proven to have existed, it would not be possible to argue from nature whether God or natural forces directs evolution. However, if evolution were proven false, then the only option would be old earth creationism.

Of course, unless there is a direct revelation from God, young earth creationists are unlikely to accept an old earth. They are unlikely to accept any observation of nature as proving their interpretation of the Genesis creation stories as wrong.

If someone can prove that the earth is less than 10,000 years old, then of all the common belief systems in North America, only young earth creation science could be correct. Evolution would be impossible; there simply would not have been sufficient time for plant and animal species to have evolved.

The rest of this web site will be primarily devoted to the debate over the age of the earth, and whether evolution of the species actually happened.



Can science determine the age of the earth accurately?
Science will never be able to prove absolutely that the world is over 10,000 years old. Collecting countless pieces of evidence for an "old earth", is supportive of their theory, but is not proof. Creationists can simply counter scientists' arguments with two of their own:


That when God created the universe 6 to 10 thousand years ago, he created everything as if it had a history. e.g. when God created trees, he made them with tree rings to look as if they been growing naturally for many years before creation. When he created the Appalachian mountains, he chose to formed them to look as if they were the remains of tall mountains which had been eroded for millions of years. When he created the world, say 8,000 years ago, it was fashioned to appear 4.5 billion years old.


All scientific dating methods share a single assumption: that basic processes behaved in the past much as they do at the present. e.g. the speed of light, the gravitational constant, the rates of nuclear decay, etc. are constant or near constant. There is no absolute proof that this is true. If some of these basic quantities changed by a factor of a million times or more, then dating methods would suggest an age of the universe that is 10,000 years or less.


And so, the debate will probably continue forever. We see no possibility of resolution.

Reference: Based on a Gallup Organization poll conducted during 1997. The poll did not have a category for old earth creation science.


NASA &THE BIBLE

For all the scientists out there, and for all the students who have a hard time convincing these people regarding the truth of the Bible, here's something that shows God's awesome creation, and that He is still in control.

Did you know that the space program is busy proving that what has been called "myth" in the Bible is true?

Mr. Harold Hill, President of the Curtis Engine Company in Baltimore, Maryland, and a consultant in the space program, relates the following development.

I think one of the most amazing things that God has done for us today happened recently to our astronauts and space scientists at Green Belt, Maryland.

They were checking out where the positions of the sun, moon, and planets would be 100 years and 1,000 years from now. We have to know this so we won't send up a satellite and have it bump into something later on in its orbits.

We have to lay out the orbits in terms of the life of the satellite and where the planets will be so the whole thing will not bog down.

They ran the computer measurement back and forth over the centuries, and it
came to a halt. The computer stopped and put up a red signal, which meant that there was something wrong with either the information fed into it or with the results as compared to the standards.

They called in the service department to check it out, and they said, 'What's wrong?' Well, they found there is a day missing in space in elapsed time.

They scratched their heads and tore their hair out. There was no answer.

Finally a Christian man on the team said, 'You know, one time I was in Sunday School, and they talked about the sun standing still.' While they didn't believe him, they didn't have an answer either, so they said, 'Show us, '

He got a Bible and went to the book of Joshua where they found a pretty
ridiculous statement for any one with 'common sense.' There they found the Lord saying to Joshua,
'Fear them not, I have delivered them into thy hand; there shall not a man of them stand before Thee.'

Joshua was concerned because he was surrounded by the enemy! And if darkness fell, they would overpower them. So Joshua asked the Lord to make the sun stand still! That's right... 'The sun stood still and the moon stayed and
lasted not to go down about a whole day!' (Joshua 10:12-13) The astronauts and scientists said, There is the missing day! They checked the computers going back into the time it was written and found it was close but not close enough. The elapsed time that was missing back in Joshua's day was 23 hours and 20 minutes ... not a whole day.

They read the Bible, and there it was about [approximately] a day. These little words in the Bible are important, but they were still in trouble because if you cannot account for 40 minutes, you'll still be in trouble 1000 years from now.

Forty minutes had to be found because it can be multiplied many times over in orbits. As the Christian employee thought about it, he remembered somewhere in the Bible where it said the sun went BACKWARDS.

The scientists told him he was out of his mind, but they got out the Book and read these words in 2 Kings that told of the following story: Hezekiah, on his death bed, was visited by the prophet Isaiah who told him that he was not going to die. Hezekiah asked for a sign as proof. Isaiah said 'Do you want the sun to go ahead 10 degrees?'

Hezekiah said, 'It is nothing for the sun to go ahead 10 degrees, but let the shadow return backward 10 degrees.' Isaiah spoke to the Lord, and the Lord brought the shadow ten degrees BACKWARD! Ten degrees is exactly 40 minutes!

Twenty-three hours and 20 minutes in Joshua, plus 40 minutes in Second Kings
make the missing day in the universe! Isn't it amazing?

References: Joshua 10:8 and 12,13 and 2 Kings 20:9-11.